Richie's Project

Hi, Dan

I am Richie and my master project is a modeling project about a female disabled dancer who is doing practice in a dance room.

I am going to model and texture a dance room corner and the character.The image is the concept art of my project









The following are reference photos I have found on 3D.sk. For the character modeling,I plan to make a basemesh in XSI.Then I'll use Zbrush to make the details.


















These images are the female character basemesh model which I am working on.Please let me know what do you think about it.Thank you.





















































Head































Actually, I don't know why the head looks a bit more slim and longer in the image than in the viewport when I rendered it out.























Arm
























hand

For the hand, I just keep the proportion right, because the fingers are bending in the final pose.











Foot












Thank you.

Statue Model by Leah

Hi Dan,

I haven't introduced myself yet, but I'm Leah. For the masters project I'm working with another classmate on a piece that is based on Greek mythology and oral traditions. The final piece is going to be a series of stills, and I'm doing all the modelling. There will be one character, a statue, and a couple of sets. I've got a start on the statue model. At this point, I'm creating base meshes that have good topology for modelling and then I'm going to do the detail work in Z-Brush. Right now I'm looking for advice on obvious flaws and good topology. Any input you have would be appreciated. It's been really helpful reading your responses to Holly's work.

I have several images. The first is the whole statue thus far. The squashed sphere at the bottom of the model is a place holder for the hips. At this point I'm not planning on modelling the legs as they will be covered by a long toga-like skirt. We will only ever see the feel and this model isn't going to animate. I will be posing it, but no animation. However, I want to model the existing pieces so that they could animate for the practice.


Here's a closer view of the face. The hair has proven to be difficult so any tips on how to start that would be nice. Disregard the hat on the reference image. I'm not using that, only the face.







This is the breastplate that the statue will be wearing. I've had trouble with getting decent edge loops. Because this is armour, it won't be deforming much, but I would still like clean geometry.







The statues arms were difficult to get the right proportions on despite the fact that I had references. I don't want really defined muscles on the arms, but the statue is a warrior and so I don't want no definition either. Getting the edge loops to facilitate this has been problematic.




I looked at the comments you made on Holly's hands, but I have not gone back and implemented those yet on mine. Also, I am adding the detail in Z-Brush for the fingers and I realize the knuckles look odd.





Thanks for taking the time to look at my work!

-Leah

DM - Jamie

Hey Jamie,

Yeah, I agree with Saf.

Consider the force that it would take to lodge an axe through a helmet and into a chaps head. Maybe think of the follow through that a blow of that force might have. Maybe even bring the story back a few frames and have Robert still holding the axe just after the impact.

Maybe think of the result that the weight and position of Sir Henry would have on a horse. Also, to get an axe into the top of the helmet the swing would probably have been from up to down.

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.

Look forward to seeing the next step.

Cheers,

Dan

DM - Ric

Hey Ric,

Yeah that sounds like a good plan. Just make sure you leave yourself some time to experiment with the displacement settings to make sure you get the most out of them.

As for the actual polycount, I will dig out my MA project and have a check. I would always say, only use as many as you need to............helpful hey!! :D

Look forward to seeing the progress.

Cheers,

Dan

DM - Holly

Hey Holly,

The only problems I see are proportional.

Just have a look at your model alongside your reference. Here are a few things that I would consider tweaking. Don't worry though, you are going in the right direction.

Once again I hope you don't mind but I have made a few scribbles other some of your images.

The shoe: Remember that a persons weight goes through the balls of the feet when in heels ............... I imagine :D. I have overlaid your model with your ref. All you need to do is tweak the proportions of the mid section and the toe/ball section of the foot and you will be there.



The hands are looking good, just have a look at the reference and locate the meaty bits. These should give you a good idea of the shapes that you need to extrude out on the palm. Make sure to pull the little finger knuckle back a bit from the others.



The body is coming along well. Just remember if you are going to make extrudes, try and relate them to the shape of the relevant muscles. ALso, I would consider a bit of streamlining of the lower legs and knee areas. All in all though, you are making good progress.



as always if there is anything I haven't made clear enough, just let me know and I will try to sort it out.

Good luck and keep it up.

Dan

Holly - shoes, hands, body`

Hi Dan

Thanks for the advice on the face, have adjusted as advised, I plan to do a test uvwrap and add the texture so I get a better idea of how it is looking - as I think it's almost there, will show the textured version soon.
Thanks for the tip on making the shoes - breaking the shoes down into panels really helped me to figure them out, I think they look more graceful now - please let me know what you think of them.
Have been working on the hands - I don't seem to be able to get them to look like the reference imagery (have purposely made the nails longer)- do you think I need more edgeloops?
Next the body - not sure if the ankles are correct. Does the topology around the back (shoulder blade area) look too busy?
As for modeling the sweater I have extracted the polygons from the torso and upper arms, but I don't know how much detail is necessary for the underarm - does it need the underarm modeled if the material is just going to stretch over it?
Also wanted to ask you about the topology on the legs - I have tried to add topology on the thigh to flow like anatomy, but have been told that this makes it difficult to rig and it's better to have straight lines going down the legs - have you got any opinion on this?

Final question I wanted to ask you, my model is showing off her stockings, would you advise modeling the garter and the suspender straps or would you just texture them on? Also in my final image the model's thigh has a cute bulge at the top of her suspenders - would you model this bulge into the model in Tpose or would you just adjust geo when the model is in pose? I have added my attempts at adding the bulge on the image below, please let me know if you think this is necessary Many Thanks,
Holly

polygon count

Hi Dan, just a quick question about the polygon count. Ive been sculpting my basemesh for the man in zbrush and have a question regarding the division level. At level 2 he is about 10'000 polygons and level 3 about 40'000. My plan is to put the level 2 mesh into xsi and then add all the strong detail in a displacement map (level 6 or 7 in zbrush)

Does this seem a good idea or should I approach the problem a different way? There is a limit to the detail you can put in at level2 but I dont want the rendering times to be crazy. Cheers, Ric.

Posted in the wrong bit....hmmmm

Hi Jamie,

I'm supposed to be on Holiday, but I thought I'd quickly chip in. I won't comment on the pose but more on the composition. For me, the the characters are too far apart from one another, I found hard to figure out what the relationship was between them at first. Have you tried pulling them closer together? I think the impact of the strike is being lost at the moment. Try a few variations and post them for some feedback.

cheers!

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the thoughts on the galloping horse, I'll try a few versions and see what happens. I think the bottom row of frames in the picture you uploaded in particular has some good poses, suggesting a bit more speed. I might introduce the cloth of the galloping horse too, it'll be quite important to the pose I think and hopefully add alot of energy/suggest the movement and speed.

Your right enough about the details not having to be modelled in, a bump map would definitely be fine for the crown, it was more just to try and tackle it to be honest.

Thanks for the comments, I'll let you know how I get on!

Jamie.

DM - Jamie

Hi Jamie,

Good Progress!! The texturing looks to be going very well. Those accessories will look great when you get some bump and shading on them.

Just one comment. The rearing horse looks great, however, the pose on the gallopping horse looks a little awkward. I know that you are posing based on your concept but it might be worth experimenting with the straight legs, maybe adding a small amount of bend to the joints might help. Have foung this image analysing the gait of a horse........



With transpose being pretty quick, it might be worth a bit of playing about with.

As for the helmet, I will have a better look later on. At a first glance you look to have the right idea but it might be worth trying to subdivide the whole mesh to a point you can add in the circle details easily .......... at the end of the day, small details like that can be added in with ZBrush or just a bump map. You don't have to limit yourself to one technique/package just use the ones that make your life easier and give the best results!!

Good work though, look forward to seeing more.

Cheers,

Dan

DM - for All

Hey guys,

Just come across this thread on ZBrush Central and thought that some of you might find it useful.

http://zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=71835

It is someone asking about Displacement settings in XSI 7 ........... haven't tried the quick code but it could help.

Cheers,

Dan

Bannockburn_Project_Update

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the advice last time round, especially the 3D layers in Zbrush. I felt like a complete uber-geek because of my excitement at what you can do with the layers! It's a much better way of working and having the ability to sculpt in symmetry and then flip back to your pose is amazing! I set up my horse Ztool in this fashion and plan to repose my man using 3D layers.




The detail transfers quite well, obviously once I'm happy with my poses I'll resculpt areas/muscles acording to the pose.

Here's a video of the poses as they are now, like I say I'm going to repose the men and it's easy to edit the horse poses now, so anything that you think looks weak in the pose will be helpful to know at this stage.






I've been spending a bit of time unwrapping and adding a diffuse map to all the accessories I have modelled so far. I was a bit uneasy with the texturing all being left till the end of the project, worried it would take longer than I anticipated so I thought I would spend a few days working on it now, for a bit of variety also. Here's how it's looking, just taken from the textured viewport.




Thanks for suggesting trying out some hole modelling in panels. I havent done the helmet yet but I do plan to model it completely in XSI, in fact I'm gonna do all the accessories with hard modelling in XSI and textures, not planning to involve zbrush unless necessary. I had to takle some detail with a flat panel on King Robert the Bruce's crown, where I tried to incorporate circles into the mesh. Here's how I got on, not sure if there's anywhere obvious where I could have saved a few polys, maybe you can take a look:




Thanks for reading. I'm gonna be working simultaneously on trying to resolve the accessories and working on the figure and horse poses, I'll post up again soon when there's some progress.

Cheers very much.

Jamie.

DM - Ric

Hi Ric,

You project looks very cool, and I think your Shriek character looks great.

You seem to have made a good start on your base mesh. I would definitely suggest that you ZBrush in a standard pose so that you can make use of the symmetry options when you sculpt. There is plenty to do without having to do the same job twice........ especially when you don't have to. I would block in the anatomy to a reasonable level then retopologise then pose. The only things you want to be adding after the pose are the details that are brought about by the pose - eg. the wrinkles on the bent arm and the changes in muscle volume as the pose changes. Do as much as you can using symmetry and make the program work for you. You don't want to have to sculpt 2 hands from start to finish!!

It might be an idea to add a little geometry to the face. This will be an area of high detail and so will require a higher concentration of polys to carry the details.

As for the hard surface and organic mix. I would always try to add resolution only where it is needed. There is no point in adding resolution where it is not required, at the end of the day you have to render the project and the less polys there are, the quicker it will render.

This is a good tutorial for SubSurface scattering. Might be worth checking out:
http://www.i3dtutorials.com/tutorial/41_using-subsurface-scattering-shaders

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Dan

DM - Holly

Hey Holly,

Think the head is coming on great.

Once again I have scribbled a few suggestions on the images again. Let me know if you need me to clarify. The topology looks good!!



As for the shoes, the best thing that i can suggest is to build them in panels like they would in the real world. You can build them with simple poly grids and then just extrude the edges to give the material thickness. The heel can be a separate piece entirely. You can merge the sections into one object is you like, but the sections don't have to be actually joined.

Here is one I have done recently to show you what I mean. All the group colours are the separate sections. Hope it helps!!



Cheers,

Dan

DM - Lies

Hi Lies,

Looks like you are getting on well. Don't worry too much about your UV's, there are always pinch points and it is just a matter of trying to put those in good places. If it is really bothering you, then you can always detach the nose's UV's from the rest of the face and unwrap it on it's own. You might have problems with the seams if you do that though.

See image below for feedback on face, nothing too serious just a proportion tweak:



Displacement does make things render slow and if you want to render the finished high res mesh that is fine. However you might find that you can't do that for all the sections of your model, especially if you have a whole scene involved. Also be sure to keep a Low res mesh so you can render out some wire frames for your reel. If you are getting little change with your displacement applied, make sure you have experimented with you geometry approximation and the change range in your Render tree.

Good luck with the clothing, look forward to the next update.

Dan

The Shoes

Hi Dan, here's a shot of the shoes - have made them as a separate mesh (the strap is separate too, not got it quite right just yet) Have been struggling with the shoes - not sure if I've got the curves right - any advice on how to approach shoes?

Thank you

The Shriek

Hi Dan, my name is Ric and the project I will be modelling is focussed on a battle between a creature I created called the shriek and a human character. Here is an early concept of the kind of image I had in mind.





Here is a my final concept for the creature I am modelling. Its changed a bit.



I have modelled a base mesh for the human character. I was originally intending to pose the figure in xsi and then take this it into Zbrush and sculpt the characters anatomy. I am now wondering if I should sculpt the anatomy in pose and retopologise, then pose the character. My main concern with this approach is that the characters anatomy will change in its new pose and will probably need to be sculpted again. Perhaps I should retopologise the character after I have posed it or maybe I could turn the sculpt into a displacement map and put it back onto the original mesh in xsi. Please advise me on the best approach to take!

Here are some pictures of the model and the photoshoot















Another problem I have involves the modelling of the beast. Because it is a biomechanical creature some of the hard edged shapes flow through into the organic shapes like this example below with the characters face. I have made theface lowpoly for the sculpt but the plate attatched to it needs to be higher poly. Should I make the face higher poly also in this case? Also I was thinking of retopolgising the face and attatching it back to the hard edged shape. Not really sure what to do.





The final question I have involves shaders. I have only really encountered the sss shader and struggled to connect it up properly in the render tree. Can you give me any advice or let me know of a useful website that I could look at in reference to applying the shaders for the metallic parts of the creature?

I know you are a busy man, so thanks for looking at these questions. Thanks,Ric

Lies's Project: Advice head

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the very useful advice on the head! I've been working a little more on the head, but I'll be proceeding soon to the body and clothes. I've changed the most obvious mistakes and then imported the lowest subdivision level mesh into XSI to unwrap it. Because you are only going to see the front and side of the face, I didn't pay too much attention to the neck.

While unwrapping I found it difficult to get the nose right. As you can see on the picture it still looks too stretched. Maybe you can give me some advice on this part of the mesh and if the overall unwrapping looks good.










After unwrapping, I imported the low polygon mesh back into ZBrush to get the UV's there. I then made a displacement map. Everything was going fine until I got back into XSI. I used the low polygon mesh with the displacement map, but it only showed slight changes.
I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, since I've been following a tutorial.


What I also found was that rendering a mesh with displacement is taking much longer than rendering the highest subdivision level mesh from ZBrush in XSI. Is it then maybe a better idea using the high res mesh instead of using displacement map or will the scene in time get too heavy?

The next image is the adjusted face. This is the high res mesh rendered in XSI










I did some basic texturing. Although I thought she started looking like her in ZBrush, I textured a part of her to make sure if I was going in the right direction. This is of course not the final texture.










My plans in the next few days is to begin clothing and re-evaluate the arm as it is the only other visible anatomy. My biggest concern is deciding on the method of getting everything in XSI as when it comes to sculpting the dress, I really want to know exactly what I'm aiming to export out of ZBrush.

Thanks for reading! Any help is much appreciated.

The Face

Hi Dan

Thanks for the advice on the body mesh - have checked out the Cowgirl, that topology has been a real help. Will make adjustments as you advise.

Right now onto the face... Would be great if you could advise me with this model? At the moment my main struggle is getting the bone of the eyebrow right with the bulge underneath the eyebrow, and the creases between this bulge and the eyelid. Also am trying to model in the tear-duct, but I don't think this is working, would you advise I model this as a separate model.

When my model smiles she exposes her teeth - intend to add these soon.

I wanted to ask about the neck, my model will be turning her head (when posed) and her neck muscle (think it's the sternocleidomastoid?) prominently bulges, do you think the topology on the neck will allow for this? Another point about the neck - I've realised that my ref images don't match up for the neck profile. In the image of the profile T-pose, the model's hands hide the back of her neck. I feel as though the neck in profile of my model should be slimmer, can you advise? - this area will be completely covered by her hair.